Welcome to Inside The Senior Alliance, a podcast exploring resources and issues in the field of aging. I’m Jason Maciejewski, CEO at The Senior Alliance, the Area Agency on Aging, serving Western and Southern Wayne County. Joining me today is Dr. Kristine Ajrouch, Research Professor at the University of Michigan, and a member of our Board of Directors at The Senior Alliance. Dr. Ajrouch, thank you for joining me today.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (00:20):
My pleasure, Jason. Happy to be here.
Jason Maciejewski (00:22):
For over 20 years your research has focused on Arab Americans in the United States, and you focused on aging from the perspective of older adults in the metro Detroit Arab American and Muslim communities. How did you become involved in this work and what drew you to the topic of aging?
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (00:39):
It’s kind of a long winding path to how I got there. You know, I started out during my graduate studies at Wayne State University very interested in ethnic identity formation among children of Arab immigrants. And as I was carrying out that research, a sentiment would keep emerging throughout our conversations where these young people, they were adolescents, children of immigrants who would tell me that one of the things that was important to their identity and that made them different from just regular Americans without having that ethnicity, was that they would never put their parent in a nursing home when they got older. And I thought that was a very interesting idea that they had, mostly because I wondered how they had any experience with this issue given that they were the first generation living in this country, born in the US and they didn’t have any grandparents here.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (01:32):
Their oldest generation were their parents who were, you know, middle aged at the time. So when I finished my graduate studies and I was looking for postdoctoral fellowship opportunities, there was one in issues in aging at the University of Michigan. And so I thought this would be an opportunity to explore that sentiment in some detail. And so I started my postdoctoral fellowship and I began to really get acquainted with the field of gerontology and the field of aging. And I remember during my graduate studies, my dissertation advisor telling me, you know, Kristine, you can’t finish this program without taking a class on aging. And at the time I thought he was sort of crazy because my focus was on adolescents and ethnic identity formation, and I didn’t understand what the relevance was. But after doing this fellowship, I really realized as a sociologist that you can’t really understand human behavior and society without understanding the entire life course or the entire lifespan. And really also incorporating issues around aging. So I became very passionate about aging from that fellowship. And from that point forward just began a lot of my research and a lot of my interest focused on the later part of the life course. So that’s sort of how I got into it. But it wasn’t something that I had an initial interest in. It sort of evolved throughout my research and throughout my studies.
Jason Maciejewski (02:54):
I think a lot of people have that kind of circular path with their academic work that they maybe start out doing one thing and end up in a completely different track. So very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. As an Area Agency on Aging, The Senior Alliance serves nearly a quarter of a million older adults who live in Western Wayne and downriver. And there’s a significant Middle Eastern and North African population in our region. As you know, current data on Middle Eastern North African ethnicity at the individual level is not really available due to a lack of current census data. But we know that 6.6% of all households in the region speak Arabic at home. And earlier this year, the US census announced a new racial and ethnicity category, Middle Eastern, North African, or MENA and that will begin to be used on new census forms. And you think about all of the data surrounding the Middle Eastern, North African population, what do you think that we’re going to learn once the census begins collecting this data category?
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (03:50):
Oh my gosh. I mean, I think the opportunities to learn about this population from this new category are just never ending and enormous. We’ve really been hampered in the research community, but I also think in, you know, policy and programming fields as well, we’ve been hampered by the inability of being able to identify this population because as you know, before this new census category was approved, the MENA category of which the majority are of Arab ancestry was considered white, you know in the racial category as white. So even if MENA individuals were present in large databases, it was hard to know what their issues or strengths or challenges were because they were simply considered white and it was very difficult to disaggregate. The US census has provided some ways of identifying this population up until this point through their ancestry question.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (04:47):
But even with that question and that’s where an individual would have an option to indicate their ancestry or ethnic origins. So the US census has allowed us to identify those of Arab ancestry for those who voluntarily dated their ancestry. But having this category is going to have so many benefits for the population, not just the MENA population, but I would say for the US population in general, because when we can identify patterns within specific populations, it not only helps us to understand that population, but oftentimes gives us some insight into challenges and strengths that could be applicable to the entire population that you just don’t quite pick up on when these populations aren’t identified. So I just think that the opportunities that are going to be available, because this MENA category has been approved, are going to be enormous. You know, once the census says that a category is mandated reporting, it sort of trickles down to other organizations and will make it more prevalent in terms of how healthcare systems collect data, how schools collect data, how various organizations collect data. And that’s going to have an enormous impact on our understanding of population level trends that I think are impactful. As I said, not just for the MENA community, but for society as a whole.
Jason Maciejewski (06:08):
At The Senior Alliance, we’re really excited about this as well because we’re going to be able to better understand a significant part of our population and our service area. Looking forward to what we’re going to be able to learn and better understand so that we can turn that around into impacts for services and resources. Was a good day at The Senior Alliance when we learned that the census had adopted the MENA designation.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (06:30):
I know, I think it was a good day for a lot of different organizations when that [inaudible] came through. There’s been a lot of effort as you know, to push for the census to approve that category. So, you know it’s been decades in the works. So now that it’s come to fruition, I think there’s a lot of opportunities for a lot of organizations to better serve the public. Also, a lot of opportunities for researchers to help in that endeavor because of the opportunities that will now exist to be able to identify that population.
Jason Maciejewski (07:00):
I want to turn for a moment to the extensive research that you have done on the topic of aging, both in your work at the University of Michigan and previously as a Professor of Sociology at Eastern Michigan University. You’ve done extensive research into Southeast Michigan’s Arab American community. What are some of the key insights that you’ve realized over the course of your career?
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (07:20):
You know, the research that I’ve done up until this point has been mostly carried out on what we call convenience samples. And that’s, you know, sort of identifying participants in a research project through personal connections or through organizations who then identify people to be part of a study. And those have been very valuable in terms of beginning to understand what some of the issues might be for the Arab American community, especially around aging. But what I’m really excited about and what I’d like to talk about with you today, is a project that I’m leading currently in the field that is going to identify a representative sample of Arab Americans in the metro Detroit area. And one of the reasons why that’s so important is because when you can identify a representative sample in research, the findings that you have are then generalizable to the larger population.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (08:16):
Whereas in previous work that I’ve done, I could never really generalize what I was finding. It was more kind of like initial preliminary understandings of processes and health status, et cetera. But with the representative sampling, what we’re going to be able to do is whatever findings we have, we’re going to be able to say, okay, this is what we found, and this is something that can help us understand the population as a whole. And this project that I’m leading is about how to reduce our risk of Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias. And as you know, this is a challenge that all of us face as population aging increases because we know age is the number one risk factor for Alzheimer’s. And we also know there’s no cure yet. Although there’s a lot of efforts in trying to find one, what the research is overwhelmingly pointing to is the ability and possibility of reducing our risk of getting Alzheimer’s.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (09:09):
So being able to understand the strengths and challenges in a particular population is just, I think, an imperative part of trying to address this growing challenge that we have with population aging. So I’m really hopeful that what this study is going to tell us is what are those factors that are, I guess, important for this community? But I would venture to say that what we find is important for this community can likely be something that we can extend to other populations to help us better understand what it is that we can do as individuals, but also as a society and to help reduce our risk. I just wanted to be able to talk about this study because it’s such an exciting development in the field, and we’re currently also accepting volunteers. We’re extending it beyond our representative sampling in order to make sure that we incorporate as many people as possible.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (10:00):
But in the past, Jason, I mean, what I really found with this community is that a lot of my research focuses on social relations and social networks. And as you know, this is a very important topic, especially for older adults. And one of the surprising findings from my perspective is that the social networks among Arab Americans tend to be smaller on average than what white Americans report. And they also tend to be more likely comprised of family. And that may not be too surprising because I think there’s a lot of emphasis on family relations in Arab American culture for a variety of reasons. But I think this is a really important finding because we generally think of ethnic communities as being very social, and I think there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that would suggest that. But the objective measures of social networks are suggesting that their actual social networks comprised of people who are important and close are actually on average, smaller. So I think that raises a lot of issues and a lot of questions for us in terms of what kinds of social resources does this community have for thinking about, I guess, and living with an aging population.
Jason Maciejewski (11:10):
Let’s get into that social network question and the family foundational aspect of the Arab American community. At The Senior Alliance we encourage older adults to live their way no matter where a person is in life, regardless of their age or background. We believe that they really deserve to live life the way they choose and to be where they choose and to do it on their own terms. So as we know, the vast majority of older adults desire to continue living in their own home as they age. And as you’ve alluded to, you know, the Arab American and Muslim communities, there’s a strong family foundation there. And what does aging and longevity look like in the Arab American community?
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (11:51):
Those are questions that I think are still yet to be answered because of the paucity of data that we have. But based on the preliminary data that I’ve collected, you know, I think aging in Arab American families and I do want to just clarify that Arab Americans are both Muslim and Christian, although in the Arabic speaking world, the majority of people are Muslim. Actually in the United States, the majority of people with Arab ancestry are Christian. So that’s sort of an interesting tidbit. So I just want to make sure we don’t conflate Arab and Muslim together. But what I will say is that Arab American aging does have a lot of emphasis on family as the kind of security net, which I don’t think is necessarily unique for this population. I think for most people, family is considered the first line of defense when it comes to challenges that we face with aging.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (12:41):
I think what’s unique though about Arab Americans is that, especially among recent immigrants or those who are connected to an immigrant generation more closely, what we find is that those who are coming from Arabic speaking countries are generally coming from countries that have very weak welfare states. And they generally don’t have policies and resources at the government level to support older adults. Instead, the family, the children and any family members that are maybe around if children don’t exist, are considered the safety net. So those kinds of expectations and values are present when immigrants come, and those who have close ties to an immigrant generation. So it’s a very important part of the aging experience in terms of values and expectations and ideals. I think the pragmatic realities though of a lot of aging Arab American families are that, you know, number one, we’re living at a time historically where people are living longer than ever before.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (13:43):
And so the possibilities of being able to take care of a family member without outside support is oftentimes very challenging. And therefore there’s a real need, I think, within the Arab American community to think about how programs and supports that exist in the community can be implemented and used and accessed by families. Not to replace the family as a source of support for older adults, but to support the family as a source of support for older adults. So, you know, one of the things I always remember this one sentiment that I had from a focus group discussion that I had with older Arab Americans, maybe about 10 years ago. And it was a group of immigrants, but they had been here for over 30 years, this group. And one of the things they sort of lamented was how much they missed some of the daily norms, like going over to the neighbor’s house and having a cup of coffee every morning.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (14:36):
And I bring this up because it really draws attention to the fact that family is important, it’s necessary, but it’s not necessarily sufficient. I think in addition to family, older adults really need to have opportunities to interact outside of the family sphere as a way to maximize health and wellbeing. And this is something we find in the literature generally, when older adults have diverse networks, they do much better healthwise. And I think this is also true for Arab Americans, but I think the opportunities for Arab Americans to engage in the kinds of interactions that they were used to in the home countries, especially, and I’m talking especially for immigrants here, are very hard to replicate just because of the lifestyle in the US it’s very different in terms of how people live and how people work. I always say in the US you know, we organize our life around work, and then all the social stuff happens when we have some free time. Whereas a lot of these immigrants are coming from countries where work is something you do, but it’s not the center of your life, it’s the socializing and connecting with others is kind of the main activity with work. You know, just being something that you do because you have to. So I think that difference is really profound for a lot of Arab Americans who have recent ties to immigrant generations.
Jason Maciejewski (15:53):
I recently saw the Blue Zones program on Netflix, which explores the five communities around the world that have really long lifespans in particular communities. One of the common threads between them was the social networks and the networks beyond family and how people were tied together. So definitely a characteristic that I think is being demonstrated that’s successful for longevity around the world, but I’m going to bring it back to metro Detroit for a second. When you look at the Arab American community here in metro Detroit, Southeast Michigan, are there things about it that make it unique when you compare other populations of Arab Americans around the country?
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (16:33):
Well, first of all, you know, Metro Detroit is known not just within the United States, but maybe even around the world as having the largest, most visible concentration of Middle Eastern and Arab Americans outside of the Middle East. And that’s kind of unique. And why I say that is because, you know, if you look at the census data, and again, we can only identify this population through the ancestry question, but if you look at the data that’s been analyzed through the ancestry question, Michigan doesn’t have the largest population, actually California and New York do. But what’s unique about Metro Detroit is that we have the largest, most visible concentration meaning of people living amongst each other. And so that’s a very unique attribute that we have in Michigan. And a lot of times Arab Americans living around in different parts of the country get a little frustrated because so much research comes out of the metro Detroit area, and they say, but that doesn’t represent all Arab Americans nationally, because, you know, Detroit is unique and they’re not wrong.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (17:31):
I mean, Detroit is unique in that way. Another factor that makes the Arab American community unique from the rest of the country is that when you look at the socioeconomic profile of Arab Americans living in metro Detroit, particularly in Wayne County, education levels are lower on average than Arab Americans nationally. And poverty levels are higher than average than what you find among Arab Americans nationally. So these are some unique challenges I think we face in the metro Detroit area when it comes to Arab Americans. I mean, when you look at Arab Americans nationally, it’s kind of like a bifurcated population because you have a large segment of the population that reports higher education levels and higher income levels than the average American. But then when you look at the lower strata, they also report higher levels of poverty and lower levels of education than the average American. And that’s really, really visible or I guess, evident in the metro Detroit area, especially Wayne County.
Jason Maciejewski (18:33):
Interesting dynamics. Thanks for sharing those insights. At The Senior Alliance, we’ve put a huge focus on trying to reach minority communities. We are charged with doing that kind of outreach through the Older Americans Act. And in your opinion, what more can Area Agencies on Aging do to address the needs of aging of minority populations here in the US which are very often, as you pointed out, underserved.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (18:55):
I know, let me just say that I really admire all of the work that The Senior Alliance does in that regard. I think it’s clear there’s a very sincere and passionate commitment to inclusivity and making sure that underrepresented populations are included in everything that you do. That’s one of the things I love about The Senior Alliance. I think in terms of being able to increase activity around that goal, I would say there are two things that could be done. You know, maybe one is to organize outreach efforts, community outreach efforts with those communities. And I know that you have advisory boards that include representation from communities that you’re interested in serving. And I think that’s a great first step. But I think these community engagement efforts and outreach efforts just, I guess continue doing that and maybe doing them more frequently. And with the diversity of the Arab American community, I mean, I think one of the things that we have to be careful of when we talk about Arab Americans, just when we talk about whites, for example, it tends to homogenize a very diverse group of people.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (19:58):
And we know that Arab Americans are diverse in terms of national origin. They’re diverse in terms of religion. They’re diverse in terms of ethnicity, and that’s true I think in the areas that you service with The Senior Alliance. So I think being cognizant of that diversity and reaching out, making sure that there’s outreach to the diverse Arab American communities within metro Detroit would be really valuable. You know, I think one of the ways that you can build trust, as I mentioned, there’s a lot of, you know, family is the first line of defense, and there’s not a lot of, there’s not a lot of acceptance when it comes to programs and supports that exist outside of the family. So I think having people, you know, on The Senior Alliance staff that are part of the community could also go a long way. Because I think then you can build trust and also build awareness about the amazing services and programs that you offer to the community. I guess those are the two things that come to my mind when you ask that question.
Jason Maciejewski (20:54):
We really appreciate your insights that you shared with us as well. Doing that outreach with Arab American community members and organizations like ACCESS and others really helps us inform and become better educated about how to deliver programs and services. So as we continue to evolve that outreach is a huge part of delivering programs and services in the community. So thank you for the comments. I want to close with maybe a more general question about aging and longevity. What have you seen in those areas that has evolved over the course of your career that’s been, you know, striking for you?
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (21:28):
I think what’s really been striking has been two things. One would be lifestyle behaviors, and the second would be social relationships in terms of lifestyle behaviors. You know, I think it’s just amazing to me how much impact the ways in which we live our life and the choices that we make can have on our health and wellbeing as we grow older. And I don’t want to put too much emphasis, I mean, it’s really important, but I guess when I say I don’t want to put too much emphasis on it, is that, you know, we also have to realize that the choices that we make occur within a system of constraints. So not everybody has the same choices and the same access for lifestyle behaviors. So I am really struck by the need, I think on a larger level, on a macro level, on a societal level, to create opportunities for all people living in the metro Detroit area to have choices that allow them to have healthier lifestyles.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (22:25):
You know, whether it’s having opportunities, safe places to walk, having access to healthy food, et cetera. That’s really important. I think that struck me as a very important part of healthy aging. And then the second with regards to social relations is, and I made reference to this earlier, but I’m going to say it again, the importance of diverse social networks. And especially as we get older, there’s more challenges as we get older to have diverse networks because, you know, we lose people as we get older due to death and other moving away and geographic mobility. But there needs to be, I think, a consistent effort to stay connected, stay engaged, find opportunities to challenge your social relationships in ways that ask you to think in new ways. You know, I think it’s really easy to get complacent and just want to be around people that you’re comfortable with, but I think it’s really important to continue to forge new relationships and be open to connecting with people outside of your comfort zone. I think those are the two things that have impressed me throughout my work in the area of gerontology and aging.
Jason Maciejewski (23:31):
Interesting. Well, Dr. Ajrouch, thank you for joining me today on this episode of Inside The Senior Alliance.
Dr. Kristine Ajrouch (23:36):
It was my pleasure. Jason, thanks again for all the great work you guys do at The Senior Alliance and I’m really happy to be part of this podcast today.
Jason Maciejewski (23:44):
If you have questions about our agency or services or programs The Senior Alliance offers, you can call us at (734) 722-2830. Email us at info@thesenioralliance.org or visit our newly refreshed website at thesenioralliance.org. On Facebook we can be located by searching for The Senior Alliance. And finally, our X, formerly known as Twitter handle, is @AAA1C. I’m Jason Maciejewski. Thank you for listening to this episode of Inside The Senior Alliance.
